A Christian View

God Was Once A Man Like Us

2012-01-25T14:26:00.000-08:00

There are two Mormon quotes that has attracted a lot of resistance from the Christian communities. These two quotes were,

Joseph Smith
I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.
(Journal of Discourses, Vol 6, pg 3-5, / King Follett Sermon - April 1844)

Lorenzo Snow
“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.”
( The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.)

Both Joseph Smith and Lorezno Snow made these quotes to say that God the Father was a man like us and progressed into Godhood. Essentially, that God the Father was once a mortal man like us and became a God, our God. Joseph Smith claimed that this very doctrine is in the Bible, but has anyone shown this in the Bible?
----- Please Read More »

Spirit Prison - a Real Place Where Christ Attended

2009-11-24T09:08:00.000-08:00

Within the Bible, there is a passage that has been challenged by many Christians, some believing that Jesus visited the spirits of men and women who are held in a type of spiritual prison and others deny that Jesus visited anyone in spirit, claiming that this passage speaks about the state of humanity, being in spiritual type prison because of the bondage of sin. IN the latter, other Christians have tried to justify on the basis that our chance for salvation is in mortality and once mortally dead, our chance has ended, claiming that for Christ to speak to spirits in prison advocates a contradictory doctrine that there is a second chance when the Bible says there is only one.

The Bible passage in question is,

1 Peter 3: 18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

When we follow the English as written in the King James passage of 1 Peter 3:18-19, it follows, by reading it, it says that Jesus CHrist died and after which (said as "By which"), he went to the spirits in prison. Is there more in the Bible which we can find that clarifies this before we compare these various Christian theories?

There are other Bible scriptures, so let us look at them.

John 5:25,28
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

This scripture speaks about the power and authority given to Jesus Christ by the Father. This passage may not specifically refer to a spirit prison, but it speaks of the dead and they shall hear his voice and those that hear his voice shall live. What this suggests is that those who have died, the just and unjust, are going to hear the voice of Christ, therefore, the dead only refers to the mortally dead and they are much alive in spirit. When we combine this to 1 Peter 3:18-19, we have the power of Christ given by the Father to speak to the spirits in the grave. The part of the power to execute judgement in John 5:27 may mean final judgement but to be assured, for any person to end up in a spiritual prison, requires some judgement made upon him/her to place them there. Therefore, we still see that these scriptures confirm the belief that Jesus spoke to the spirits (the dead) in spirit prison.

----- Please Read More »

Banned From the Bible

2009-09-28T15:09:00.000-07:00

This is a video posted to Google, taken from the documentary previously aired by the History Channel. This documentary provides scholarly research into the history and makings of the Holy Bible and the books that were excluded. It shows the Roman Emperor, Constantine the Great, how he was involved in the making of the Holy Bible, the actual origin of many of the texts or books we now have as part of the canon of the New Testament and shows some of the historical influences and problems, that existed and affected the early Church Fathers who decided what was acceptable to the first Bible of their time.

What it clearly shows is that the making of the Bible was not by divine direction, it was not divinely constructed because of the many problems and issues that plagued the Bible's early compilers.

Allow me to ensure what I am saying is clear. The content of the Bible is the word of God, but the means by which it was complied and constructed was not by God or his prophets. This says that the scriptures that the early Apostles would have complied to publish canon would not have met such problems as the Bible suffered. The early Bible suffered from, among other things, problems with distinguishing what is God's word and what is not.
----- Please Read More »

(False) Proof that the Mormon Church is a Cult: Webster Settles It!

2009-04-26T12:39:00.000-07:00

There is a website called mormoncult.org, whose author claims that he has found proof that Mormons are a cult. As he rambles on in his website, he leads to a page where he claims that he "pursued the most scholarly, objective approach". As I read his proof, I was sadden to see another person who has chosen ignorance as his mainstay of evidence. This person, who chose to be anonymous, has not pursued any real scholarly study at all. In fact he conveniently ignores many aspects of his (poor) evidence, using the Webster dictionary with the clear intention to mislead others.
IN my blog article, I will address those missing aspects he conveniently ignored, in order to bring together a much better perspective on the word "cult". A word that Webster did not create.
The word "cult" originated from the Latin word cultus:

The Latin word cultus meaning "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," also the past participle of colere "to till".

(Link: http://www.babylon.com/define/112/Latin-Dictionary.html - type in "cultus" and obtain various reference sources with definitions )

When reading the origin of the word, the meaning and useage changes. The Unabridged Webster's dictionary says cultus refers to an established or accepted religion,

Cultus
(n. sing. & pl.)
Established or accepted religious rites or usages of worship; state of religious development. Cf. Cult, 2

(Ibid)

Historically, the term "cult" had a totally different usage and meaning,

The term "cult" first appeared in English in 1617, derived from the French culte, meaning "worship" or "a particular form of worship" which in turn originated from the Latin word cultus meaning "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," also the past participle of colere "to till". Thus in French, for example, sections in newspapers giving the schedule of worship at Catholic churches are headed Culte Catholique; the section giving the schedule of protestant churches is headed culte réformé.

(Ibid)

Did this anonymous person at mormoncult.org provide that information to you? Nope, not even with the links he provided. What this person did, was track down a definition that suited his own ideas and failed miserably to research the history and meaning of the word - cult. If he had properly researched the word with the intention to find truth, irrespective of his personal feelings and beliefs about the Mormon Church, he would see that the origin of the word "cult", clearly had a more benign origin, one which had no application to the way it is used today.
The history of the word therefore, scholarly speaking, does not speak against any religious group. By the historic definition of cultus or culte, all religions are a cult because all believe in and worship a deity, having their own forms of worship.

----- Please Read More »

Hades Means Spirit Abode - not Hell

2009-03-18T12:01:00.000-07:00

Many centuries ago, when the New Testament was being translated into English, the translators made an error. They decided on their own, without inspiration from God to translate the word "Hades" in Greek to the English word "hell". To show you what I mean, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia,

In the Septuagint (the ancient translation of the Old Testament into Greek), the Greek term "ᾅδης" (Hades) is used to translate the Hebrew term "שׁאול" (Sheol) in, for example, Isaiah 38:18).^[1] This use refers the term hades to the abode of the dead in general, rather than the abode of the wicked. Thus too, in New Testament Greek, the Hebrew phrase "לא־תעזב נפשׁי לשׁאול" (you will not abandon my soul to Sheol) in Psalm 16:10 is quoted in Acts 2:27 as "οὐκ ἐγκαταλείψεις τὴν ψυχήν μου εἰς ᾅδου" (you will not abandon my soul to Hades).

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades_in_Christianity)

The mistranslation of this one word effectively corrupted the doctrines of God pertaining to a temporary spiritual abode of two spiritual places called "spirit prison" & "paradise". A place where the wicked and righteous go to await the resurrection. This important distinction within the scriptures likely caused Christendom (among other false influences), to believe there are only two places, being heaven and hell, the latter being with Satan. The failure to translate this one word effectively removed the truth of where Jesus Christ went immediately after his mortal death and this corruption effectively deadened the doctrine that Jesus taught the spirits in a spiritual prison.

With this mistranslation, Christendom failed to believe that after mortal death, the spirit goes to one of two places within this temporary abode, that of paradise or spirit prison. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich man explains the existence of Hades and it's division of two places, showing the unrighteous (rich man) ending up in spiritual prison to suffer some more, while the righteous (Lazarus) ended up in paradise to be at peace, both awaiting their resurrection.

This historic fact, which many Christians fail to see and even heed, is the proverbial wrench in their beliefs and personal doctrines. For example the Christian doctrine that once a person dies from mortality, they go asleep, becoming unaware of anything until the day of final judgement. This is in contrast to what the Greek word "Hades" means.

With the removal of the word Hades, mistranslating it into the English word of "Hell", allowed these doctrinal corruptions to occur, because that opened the door to frivolous philosophies of men that took hold and became one of many false Christian traditions.

When Joseph Smith said that we believe in the Bible as the word of God, so long as it is correctly translated, was a statement of faith supported by fact. The importance to interpret the Bible correctly is crucial to the proper development of faith and a needed protection from false and evil doctrines. Proper interpretation requires the Holy Ghost, without whom, there is no spiritual understanding of God's word.

The fact that Hades was mistranslated, means that a common Christian will falter in his/her faith to God, believing in false doctrines that, according to the Bible, makes God angry. This is because faith is to God and his truth, but once faith is placed into false doctrines created by men or Satan, faith is removed from God, the giver of life, and instead gives faith to death or dead things.

All this bears the witness that Christian traditions, usually called "Creeds" are corrupted and bear no authorship of God. The fact that this one corruption occurred is evidence that many other corruptions exist as well. For a person to claim that the Bible is the word of God, believing that it is "inerrant", is in error himself. The fact that many Christians blindly believe doctrines because they are "popular" among different denominations, have fallen to falsehoods and false worships.

Is not true that Jesus said those who abide in God the Father will worship him in spirit and in truth? Then how can false doctrines and bad interpretations (and translations) be truth?.

To follow false traditions and doctrines only leads to spiritual death and like the rich man parable, will end up in spiritual prison, because righteousness can only exist from God's truth, not from falsehoods of men.

Heaven and Hell - Not A True Christian Doctrine

2009-02-24T17:14:00.000-08:00

In my September 2008 posting, I stated that "heaven and hell preaching is not of God". Now I wish to extend that article with historical information about the heaven and hell doctrine. To set the stage for this article, the Heaven and Hell doctrine is not Christian and was never taught by Jesus Christ to his early Christian Church with his Apostles.

The Heaven and Hell doctrine of mainstream Christianity denies the existence of many mansions (heavens or levels) and denies the existence of what the Bible calls "Paradise" and "Spirit Prison". Yet, it appears, on the other hand, that the heaven and hell doctrine was incorrectly derived from the belief that heaven was Paradise and Hell was Spirit Prison in the Bible.

Mainstream Christianity holds to the belief and doctrine that there is only one heaven and one hell. They claim this is Biblical and based on that, denounces the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because we believe that there is not just the Kingdom of God, being the same heaven they believe, but we believe there are other heavens prepared for people who do not make it into God's Kingdom. Suffice to say, the focus of this article is on the legitimacy of the mainstream Christian doctrine that states there are only two places, heaven and hell.

Is the heaven and hell doctrine Biblical and Christian in origin?

The early Christian Church, sometimes called the Church of Christ with the twelve apostles did not teach or preach this doctrine. For example the term "spirit prison" was mentioned by the Apostle Peter in

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Peter spoke of Jesus Christ entering a spiritual prison to speak to the spirits of people who have died in their sins. In the Old Testament, the same teaching prevailed, so it was not just one Apostle who believed or preached the doctrine of spirit prison. Isaiah spoke of this same spiritual place,

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

It is not surprising that a intermediate place exists after mortal death and the Bible shows this. The Bible shows that there is a spiritual place beyond the grave, where the wicked go and the righteous also, the same place for both, but a place that is divided,

Luke 16:19-25
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham far off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Where then, did this doctrine of Heaven and Hell come from? Are you truly interested to know? If you are interested, read further.

The next element is the Gnostic system that has penetrated the pagans, and the Jews, and the Christians. They were a parasite religion that taught that the God who gave the Law to the Jews was a different God and the Law was bad and was eliminated. They taught a doctrine of Heaven and Hell. That is why Justin said in his Dialogue with Trypho (80) to the Emperor on behalf of the Church at Rome that if they came across people who said they were Christians and that when they died they went to Heaven that he was not to believe that they were Christians. Look at the paper The Soul (No. 92) and also The Resurrection of the Dead (No. 143). The pagan calendar also intruded and the Church did not stamp it out. That is why the New Year is on 1 January for Janus the god of beginnings.

(Wade Cox, CATHOLICISM - Frequently Asked Questions, (written for)-Christian Churches of God)

------(and)

The Church did not believe in heaven and hell and purgatory, seeing them as pagan or Gnostic doctrines. Thus the concept of requiring consecration and absolution before death to enter heaven and avoid purgatory was dismissed as a godless and blasphemous doctrine by the early Christians. The belief in the resurrection of the dead and the total dependence on God saw no sacrament in this other than the decency of burial of the dead. Often the Church did not get that due to persecution The Bible position on the sacraments is explained in the paper The Sacraments of the Church (No. 150).
(Ibid)

The doctrine of Heaven or Hell is not a Christian doctrine, it was Gnostic and this influence affected the mainstream beliefs of Christians after the last Apostle left. In fact, in that article, the early Catholic Church did not accept the Heaven or Hell concept and declared it as heresy, but that changed over the centuries and they adopted the Pagan-Gnostic doctrine. This historic fact shows that corruption from other religious groups infiltrated Christians in the early days and behold, the false doctrine of Heaven and Hell was adopted.

Is this not interesting?

Reading history reveals that mainstream Christians were corrupted by false, pagan or heretical doctrines, which eventually became mainstream and toted today as God's word! Reading more into history, more interesting notes are found.

Justin Matyr (A.D. 110-165) condemned the Gnostics because they did not admit of the interim spirit world. The Gnostics claimed that there is no resurrection of the dead and their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven. (The Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:239). Irenaueus (A.D. 115-202) said the same (The Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:560).

(Callister, Tad R., "The Inevitable Apostasy and the Promised Restoration")

What more evidence exists?

David W. Bercot explained that the Bible has three different Greek words, "Gehenna", "Hades" and "Tartarus", that were all translated by the King Jame translators as "hell". He likewise said this was a serious mistake, because Gehenna meant a lake of fire (that is hell) and was translated correctly, but Hades meant the place where the spirits of the dead resided while awaiting resurrection. Because of this mistranslation, the concept of a spirit world for the dead became incredibly confused (Berot, from a talk on a tape titled What the Early Christians Believed About Christ's Descent into Hades). The word Tartarus also referred to hell...
(Ibid)

Some may claim that I draw this information from Mormon authors and claim that my information is tainted. Well, the historic references are clearly not Mormon and David Bercot is also non-Mormon. You can read about his Christian background here - D avid Bercot

Is my information correct? You can research it yourself, but you will find that I am correct.

The Greek word Hades (English spelling) does truly actually means, "abode of the dead in general, rather then the abode of the wicked." (Hades in Christianity - Wikipedia).

A sensible person would read these facts to see that for one, the English translation of the early manuscripts resulted in a corruption, a mistranslation that blindly removed what God truly said. When the word Hades was incorrectly translated to say "Hell", that was the work of mainstream beliefs that had no place to alter God's word, and that was placed into the "Bible"! Now that is a clear violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 / Revelations 22:18, is it not?

These facts prove that many original and true doctrines held by the early Christian Church were lost, and second, many false doctrines & philosophies infiltrated mainstream Christianity. So what do we do with this knowledge of corruption, which many Christians hold as God's word?

It is rightfully taught that the Bible is the word of God, so long as it is correctly translated or interpreted. Very wise words to follow. Next is to abandon the false doctrines that are proven as not Christian, as I have done here and seek out the truth. That can only be achieved through one source.

That source is God himself through prayer, else a person is completely lost and will continue in confusion.

Until that time, I urge other Christians to start questioning their mainstream beliefs, no matter how convenient they may be and start reading historic information about the early Christians, Pagan, Gnostics and their influences on Christians over the many centuries. Be assured that God had no hand in what they created, for he never wanted you to believe that there is only two places to go, heaven or hell. When his only begotten Son Jesus Christ said that the Father has prepared many mansons, take it literally, there are many mansons and the concept or doctrine of only heaven and hell is a false Gnostic-Pagan doctrine and not of God.

Amen

Answers Given in Accordance to Faith

2008-12-06T11:16:00.000-08:00

One of the common traits I find that exists in the Christian communities is the inability to obtain spiritual answers about the gospel or about differing religions.

First I will say that God does answer, but his answers are given to the faithful. Answers are given in accordance to the level of faith, which means that a person with only basic understanding and faith in the gospel will only receive answers that they are capable of receiving. Answers given by God depends on the level of comprehension a person has. A person with a basic understanding will not comprehend doctrine at a deeper level because there not enough knowledge within that person to sustain it. Ever try to speak to a person who has a basic understanding a deeper aspect of the doctrine? Such a person ends up lost or confused. This says that God does not provide answers that are beyond a persons faith and capability to handle because "higher truths" require greater responsibility to carry them.

Take for example a person who seek to contend or argue with others about beliefs or faith. Such a person will not receive God's assistance, because of the contentious heart within that person. God clearly said in the Bible and Book of Mormon that we are not to contend with the faith and he has nothing to do with those who create or seek contention. Therefore, such persons on their own.

Mosiah 18:2121
And he commanded them that there should be no contention one with
another, but that they should look forward with one eye, having one faith
and one baptism, having their hearts knit together in unity and in love one
towards another.

Prov. 18: 6
A fool’s lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

It is the "spirit" of the interaction that invites the Holy Spirit or keeps it away. This says that people who choose to harass, argue, debate endlessly, complain, accuse, malign, lie, or display all kinds of hatred for others, no matter the beliefs, is a person who follows the contentious spirit of Satan.

When I started with this LDS Church years ago, it took time to learn about the right spirit in discussions with others. It is human to argue and dispute, but it is NOT Christian to be that and this is why God tells us to repent and obey his word. By repentance, a person can change him/herself. With no repentance, there is no way a person can truly change because they are choosing to retain that contentious or rebellious spirit and manner.

When a person follows the spirit of Satan, there is no worth continuing with any discussion with that person because once the spirit of evil has hold of him/her; they will be led to do all sorts of evil and deceit, in the name of hate and bigotry.

In these latter-days, we are faced with an increase of adversarial conditions and people. Keep the right spirit within is a hard task at times because we are "human" and mortal with our passions and desires. Faithful acts are far more important than appeasing the contentious. I found that it was a waste of time speaking with any person who has his/her heart set on debate and argument. Reasonable discussion bears the spirit of respect, not competition. Respectful discussion can have disagreements, after all the apostles in their quorum have had disagreements to decisions or directions, but they learned to respect and sustain properly

Amen

Scriptural meaning of the Word "Generation"

2008-09-22T08:00:00.000-07:00

In some prophecies, both the Bible and Book of Mormon, the phrase "before this generation passes" or something similar, is read.

If you read this web page: http://www.earth-history.com/_toplevel/Generation.htm
or
http://www.timeemits.com/AoA_Articles/800-Year_Generation_Cycles-gr.htm

...you will see that the meaning of a generation is not around 80 years, but more to the tune of 800 years. This perspective of "generation" has been known for some time, and when we take this "perspective" and apply it to the prophecies in the Bible or Book of Mormon, that refer to a generation, the meaning of the prophecy changes and in fact for some of the prophecies made by Joseph Smith, those prophecies remain unfinished.

There is more.

The word "dispensation" and "Generation", I believe, operate together. A dispensation refers to the period of time where God restores his gospel through his prophet to his people. Adam was one dispensation, Noah another, etc. In this I believe that the word "generation" applies to the "life" of that dispensation. Thus when it is said "before the passing of this generation" would mean before the passing of this "dispensation", which refers to its completion (as with Enoch) or its fall as with Israel in the Old Testament or the Early Christian Church.
With this applied to the scriptures would set, as I believe, a proper perspective and application of "generation" in the proper "spiritual terms and application", which is then in accordance to 1 Cor 2:14.

Yet, the detractors or "Anti-Mormons" launch their false antagnostic claims that the prophecies are false because "their definition" of the word "generation" (around 30-80years to their calender) would make the prophecy false. They claim from that, that the prophet Joseph Smith is false also.

What these ignorant detractors will not tell you, is the truth about the scriptures and what God means by the word "generation". They are either completely ignorant of the truth, which fits with any Anti-Mormon, or they are purposely keeping the truth from the public to cast a false light on the matter, which also fits the Anti-Mormon mentality.

Anti-Mormons never seek the truth and they will never receive spiriutal truth because they heed the evil spirit of contention, denying the spirit of truth.

The "worldly" (Anti-Mormon) application of the world "generation", to them, means something in accordance to the mind and ways of the world, not to the mind and ways of God. It is then, to them, a convienent tool to cause confusion, and all confusion is bred by Satan.

To those who care about the truth, just consider. A dispensation is like a single family to God. His application and use of his word is therefore spiritual and eternal also. This means that God's use of the word "generation" in regards to his people is to his family within a particular generation or life of that despensation.
But this is not what the Anti-Mormons want to tell you.

One of the most important things a person requires when reading the scriptures, is the correct knowledge, and a humble heart and contrite mind so that reading prophecies and passages in the scriptures are properly understood.

With that, to "educate" the adulterous generation of this age, I post here the definition of the word "generation". These definitions are from the Easton's Bible Dictionary and the Mormon Encyclopedia.

Easton's Bible Dictionary
Genesis 2:4, "These are the generations," means
the "history." 5:1, "The book of the generations," means a family register, or
history of Adam. 37:2, "The generations of Jacob" = the history of Jacob and his
descendants. 7:1, "In this generation" = in this age. Psalm 49:19, "The
generation of his fathers" = the dwelling of his fathers, i.e., the grave. Psalm
73:15, "The generation of thy children" = the contemporary race. Isaiah 53:8,
"Who shall declare his generation?" = His manner of life who shall declare? or
rather = His race, posterity, shall be so numerous that no one shall be able to
declare it.

In Matthew 1:17, the word means a succession or series of persons from the
same stock. Matthew 3:7, "Generation of vipers" = brood of vipers. 24:34, "This
generation" = the persons then living contemporary with Christ. 1 Peter 2:9, "A
chosen generation" = a chosen people.

The Hebrews seem to have reckoned time by the generation. In the time of
Abraham a generation was an hundred years, thus: Genesis 15:16, "In the fourth
generation" = in four hundred years (Comp. verse 13 and Exodus 12:40). In
Deuteronomy 1:35 and 2:14 a generation is a period of thirty-eight years.

Link: http://eastonsbibledictionary.com/

Doctrine and Covenants Encyclopedia
A "generation," according to Webster, is
generally considered to be a "body of living beings constituting a single step
in the line of descent from an ancestor." A question arises when one narrowly
considers the 1832 proclamation that the temple in Zion "shall be reared in this
generation" (D&C 84:4-5; italics added). President Joseph Fielding Smith
noted that "this statement has been a stumbling block to some and there have
been various interpretations of the meaning of a generation. It is held by some
that a generation is one hundred years; by others that it is one hundred and
twenty years; by others that generation as expressed in this and other
scriptures has reference to a period of time which is indefinite.

The Savior said: 'An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.'
This did not have reference to a period of years, but to a period of weakness. A
generation may mean the time of this present dispensation. It is not our
intention to place any interpretation on this expression, but to say that these
matters are in the hands of the Lord and he will accomplish his purposes when he
considers that the time has come." (CHMR 1:337; italics added.)

Smith and Sjodahl added, "It is quite possible that a complete explanation
of it, cannot be obtained until it is fulfilled. That is the case with many
divine predictions. When they are fulfilled they are clear." (SS, 497.)
ref:
Hoyt W. Brewster, "Doctrine and Covenants Encyclopedia"

Please note the mention of the word "dispensation" as another meaning and usage of "generation". This to me is a confirmation that my impression and insight that I had received about the word "generation" was correct. I wanted to know the truth and I refused to accept the Anti-Mormon blasphemous and contentious style and purpose.

With the true intent to find the answer and correct understanding, with this example of the word "generation", is clear proof that the words of the prophet Joseph Smith is correct. That we accept the Bible as the word of God so long as it is correctly interpreted. And in the way the Anti-Mormons believe and interpret the Bible,

We DO NOT accept their "version" of interpretation. From this I will say that the words of Joseph Smith are true, that he is a true prophet of God and the Book of Mormon, Doctrine of Covenants, Pearl of Great Price and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are also true and of God.

Amen

"Heaven or Hell Preaching is not of God

2008-09-19T21:18:00.000-07:00

There are many other Christians who walk around believing that others have to repent or go to hell. These people announce this belief on street corners, in literature and on the Internet. These "repent or hell" preachers and teachers are grossly misinformed as to the word of God and sorely misunderstand Biblical scriptures.

In this posting I will relate why the belief of "heaven or hell" is a false doctrine and false teaching.

God blessed us with the gift of free will and choice. Adam and Eve had this freedom of individual thought when they were in the Garden of Eden. God said to Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:16-17), they can eat of any tree except of one tree, which was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. To eat of that tree meant death. Adam and Eve was left with a choice. God set the conditions of choosing one or the other. One was prohibited while the others were not.

In any situation where there is a law to obey and consequences of violating that law are given, that distinguishes the right and freedom of choice. This is confirmed when Satan beguiled Eve to partake of the forbidden tree. When Eve convinced Adam to partake of that same tree, both had made the free choice to act contrary to the commandment set down by God. As promised by God the Father, both Adam and Eve had to receive the consequences and responsibility of that choice, which was spiritual death. A death that created mortality, this world of the flesh.

Now, was there free will and choice before Adam and Eve? - answer is yes.

The story of how Lucifer rebelled against the Father, causing Lucifer to fall into the depths of hell. If there was no free will and choice, which is the freedom of separate and individual thought, Lucifer would not have rebelled with his followers and he would not have fallen to become Satan. Adam and Eve would then not have been fooled and thereby not eaten of that tree, leaving them to remain in the Garden of Eden for all eternity, but still devoid of individual thought and choice.

Do you have any concept of the importance and power of this gift called "free will and choice? If so then you can be assured it was also important to God the Father who created us and endowed us with that freedom.

Now, does God do anything to undermine his works? - Nay he does not.

This means that God will never do anything that would work contrary to the gift of Free will and Choice. God upholds the right to choose at all times. So what of this belief that there is only "heaven or hell"?

Look closely at it and see how that works with or against our freedom to choose. If we reject the call by God to repent and return to him, what is the result? - according to these other Christians, their answer is "hell" to be with Satan.

Is this right? - Nay it is not.

Some may try to justify it by saying that we suffer the consequences of choosing not to repent, and those consequences is hell. They may claim that it is the same as with Adam and Eve, where they were given an either or choice, claiming that the results are obvious. Well it was not obvious to these other Christians.

The either-or choice is contrary to free will, because there is no choice in that at all.

The "either - or" thinking denotes God "controls" the outcome of our free choice. It depicts a God that is a dictator, a tyrannical being that punishes people for not choosing his way, irrespective of how a person lives in his life. This is to say, for example, that a nonbeliever in God, who is otherwise good, helps others, is kind giving and loving, doing no harm will end up with Satan as would a murderer, thief or drug user. Certainly not a result that depicts an all knowing wise and just God.

Consider it. If we reject God, we go spend eternity with Satan. What freedom exists in that condition?

With Adam and Eve, there was no such damning condition that was the same as this "either - or" preaching of heaven or hell. In addition, there is no commandment or no prohibition attached to exercising free choice. We are free to choose. Adam or Eve were not evicted from the Garden of Eden for exercising free choice, they were evicted for the what they chose. Yet where they went, which is mortal earth, gave all of us the opportunity we would not have had if they remained in the garden. That opportunity is to be with God. Are you going to call the life God prepared for all of us a "hell"?

There is more.

When Lucifer was caste into hell, he freely chose to violated God's highest laws. That is the "what" he did that sent him to eternal hell. Lucifer was also free to choose and he chose to act in such a manner that cost him his heavenly status. IT was the violation of the highest laws of God that cost Lucifer dearly. If there was any "heaven or hell" consequence, it only existed with Satan and this brings me to speak about this curious analogy.

Satan is miserable and all that he does, the results or the outcome of his efforts and works is, of course, hellish, dark, miserable, degrading etc. Everything that he does represents him and reflects his image. Therefore, since Lucifer (who became Satan) created the outcome of heaven to hell by his actions, which is the either - or result, then the doctrine of "heaven or hell" represents Satan.

God is not Satan, thankfully, neither is Jesus Christ evil. The things that God does always shows to be wise, fair, just, all knowing and this "heaven or hell" consequence is not of God. It does not represent God's wisdom and justice.

For God to penalize us for not repenting and not choosing him, to send us to hell, is a violation against our freedom to choose. This because the result is completely "unjust" and "unwise". It is also against the scriptures in the Bible. How many passages in the Bible clearly say that God will judge us for our works? Therefore, for a person who was good, generous, loving etc, but rejected God, the just thing to do is send him to a place that reflects his choices and beliefs. This place is obviously not with God because he rejected God, but it is not hell either. This is the meaning of being "condemned". It refers to being rejected from heaven with God and it does NOT mean hell as with Satan. Condemnation includes the placing a person in that place that represents him, his level of understanding and level of faith or beliefs. here that person stays for all time.

IF any man or woman freely chooses to reject the call to repentance and does not repent, yet they continue in this life to do good and good service to others, then God sends these "good" people, who are not Christians, to hell? - or do you still believe that good person goes to stay with Satan?

If you disbelieve me and still believe that there is only two choices, Heaven or Hell, then here is a contradiction to that belief.

If a good person goes to hell anyway, to burn and suffer forever, despite all the good he/she has done, then what value is doing good anyway? - Do you get the point?

The Heaven or Hell doctrine creates the same ethical and moral dilemma in regards to the value of doing good, as would doctrine of no after life, no God, only oblivion. What good is doing good, ethically or morally speaking, if after death we no longer exist anyway? The end result of doing good is the same. With the "Heaven or Hell" doctrine, what good is doing good if you are going to go stay with Satan anyway? Do you see the dilimea that exists with the "Heaven or Hell" doctrine?

It certainly causes much confusion and contradiction to all of God's word, doesn't it?

So what is the answer then? What has God done to deal with those who choose not to repent?

As shown with Adam and Eve, there is consequence to our choices. It is a consequence for "what" is chosen, not a consequence for the act of choosing. This means that a rejection of repentance is the choice. This is a rejection of God and his kingdom. Then by that choice, that person will not end up in the Kingdom of God, being the highest heaven. Unless that person changes their choice, that choice will stand after death. That choice is then "not to enter with God". If a person chooses to be with God, well, then that person must repent, which means to change their ways and learn how to be with God. So where do these people go in the end on that final judgment day, since God is a wise and just God?

Read the Bible, there are three kingdoms. The Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial, depicted as "Glory of the Sun" and Glory of the Moon and Glory of the Stars (respectively). In addition, Jesus Christ said that there are many mansions. This means "many houses" or "many places" set up for us. None of which is "eternal hell", which is what these other Christians refer to.

There are two types of hell mentioned in the Bible. One is the place called spiritual prison, and that is where people continue to struggle and suffer until the final judgment day. This is the temporary hell, and that place must surrender the spiritually dead in the final day of judgment, "the dead shall rise". After which God judges each person and sends them into one of the lower kingdoms that I mentioned.

The second "Hell" is the eternal one, that place of eternal fire. That is reserved for the "Sons of Perdition", to reside with Satan. Those people are ones who must first violate God's highest laws in order to gain entry into that hell. One of these violations is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, for there is no forgiveness against that sin. To blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is to act against the highest light, the same condition Lucifer committed, leading him into hell. There is also eternal hell for killing innocents. Imagine the Al-Kida who killed Innocent children, where they will end up?

In summary:

God will not punish you for exercising your free will.
God respects and honours the freedom to choose.
Salvation is not salvation if it forced against our free will
God's kingdom includes the freedom to choose.
God gives consequences for our choices, be they good or bad, but we must freely choose to receive any of those consequences.
God gives us the freedom to choose him or not
It is not "evil", as in Satan or eternal hell, to not choose to repent and be saved.
God set up lower kingdoms for those who choose not to repent ( see above). None of these are "eternal hell".

In conclusion:
The belief that it is "either heaven or eternal hell" (meaning only two places), is a false teaching and false doctrine. These brimstone and fire preachers are a vexation to God's plan of salvation, causing more harm than good. Those who preach this false doctrine and do not repent it, will not enter into God's kingdom, because they preaching against one of God's grandest gifts, the gift of free will and choice, as they blindly try to impose a yoke of bondage and ignorance onto people.

Amen

Claims of God with a Bad Spirit

2008-07-15T07:45:00.000-07:00

To be of God, a person cannot be of a bad, foul or evil spirit. These two cannot co-exist in a person at the same time. I will relate this truth by way of a story.

One day a man was placed into a jail cell for being drunk. When locked behind a cell door, he started to ask for things and was denied. He got angry and accused the prison guard of being a "$&*?;" (using foul words), and told the guard that he (the guard) was a homosexual. The prisoner then said to the guard that the guard should ask God if he (the guard) was a homosexual (and used further references to God in a derogatory manner).

Was this man a "man of God"? Was this man telling the truth? Here is another story,

A female was lodged for being drunk. During her stay, she asked the prison guard if she can leave. The obvious answer was "No". She started telling the guard that he was evil and he was condemned. She also started quoting scripture from the Bible to the guard acting as if she was speaking God's word.

Was this female a woman of God? Was her quoting the scripture righteous?

These questions I posed are simple and basic questions that addresses each person's nature and spiritual state. The examples show that each person made a claim to be with God, of God, or by their actions, tried to show they follow God. Each used God's word or the name "God" to speak their, ..."opinion"... to another.

What can a person do to determine if another is truly with God or not?

A starting point is that we must look at the place where each person stands and at times, who they are or show to be. In other words, by the example they exhibit, which refers to the "fruits of their labour". In the examples above, their state of intoxication means they have abused their bodies and mind. The scriptures that tell us that our bodies are akin to a temple. We are to care for and protect our bodies. When this "temple" is defiled, the Spirit of God is not with that temple.

The scriptures also tell us that we must obey the laws of the land. In the examples above, those people violated laws against public intoxication. In addition, their behaviour overall was disrespectful and inappropriate. They spoke in a contentious or a derogatory manner, showing no common respect to the other person they attacked. They tried to use God's word or reference to God for selfish reason's. They were demeaning and used the word of God to denounce another or to put another person down.

What if we remove the state of intoxication? We still have the crude and evil manner of speech and action. These are examples of people who make claim they follow Jesus Christ or God while verbally attack others, lie, deceive, make false statements or falsely accuse. A simple rule of thumb here is,

"A person who resorts to evil and wicked manners cannot be good and cannot do good, and therefore not of God. "

It is impossible for any person who uses evil or wicked ways to do good or speak truth. This says that such a person cannot use God's word for the result would be evil. Why is this? - The Bible clearly states that an evil tree cannot bear good fruit. Thus a person who commits evil or acts wickedly, will misuse or abuse the word of God.

Now let us look at the same stories, but change the circumstances a bit,

A man is lodged in jail for being drunk in public. He is polite, listened to
direction given him in jail. During his stay he tried to preach the word of God
to the guard.

Was this man a man of God? Can this man preach the word or God to anyone? - The answer to both questions is "No".

This man, albeit polite, has set himself into an evil state. His actions were not of a faithful man of God and has spiritually lowered himself. Even if he had the authority from God to preach, he lost that power and cannot preach while in the state of a "bad example". This man is under the rule of Justice and until he serves his punishment completely, he cannot represent God. During this state of penalty, a person must repent and cannot represent God until his time of punishment is over and the one that decides when this person regains the authority to preach is God. The person cannot take it upon him/herself to reassign the authority.

Simply, God will not be represented by evil. A person must be faithful, act in a manner that is obedient to God at all times and by this God "may" choose him to represent him. In short, he MUST be a good example at all times.

This basic rule of thumb can be used to discern the spiritual state of others who profess they are with God. What example are they showing?

A person who falsely accuses others of being something when they never met is a clear sign that the accuser is evil. People who accuse others of being something when no such truth exists are people who have fallen to Satan. Unfortunately, this is what we see on the Internet. There are many hateful people who use the Internet to spread lies and slander about others, all the while professing to be of God and claiming they are saved in Jesus Christ. These type of offenders are among the worst and they claim to be with God all the while committing evil themselves. I have seen this far to often on the web.

People who show to be a bad example cannot speak truth, cannot represent truth and are evil by the very nature of their actions. Unless these persons repent and return to Jesus Christ through lawful baptism, they will end up condemned, but wait, "hate" and "selfishness" does not care.

Amen

Freedom From What?

2008-03-14T11:18:00.000-07:00

Scanning some of the testimonies of anti-Mormons, some have become atheist, others joined other churches, but all of these have proclaimed that they are now "free". Free from what? When reading the "testimonies" of their proclaimed freedom does not speak of spiritual freedom as Jesus Christ promises, it shows to be a temporal, relative & personal freedom, based on their personal likes and dislikes. The question remains with this is what kind of freedom and from what?

When that question is asked, the results are varied, in that the idea and belief of freedom that these ex-Mormon's claim to have spans from aspects of freedom from the "authority" or from the "responsibilities" or from the "rules, and so much more. The anti-Mormon sites really sop this stuff up because to them it is another tally against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and they could then falsely claim that more are leaving the Church as they provide the stats.

The anti-Mormons will not show you or reveal (if they knew and cared) the background to these claims, because then these claims would fall to the wayside as superfluous and solely personal, having nothing to do with the actual spiritual truth and value.

Why is this?

It is because the "ex-Mormon" and "anti-Mormon" mentality is all based on personal and temporal dissatisfactions or satisfactions. Whether they liked or disliked the person who sits as the prophet, whether the rules personally appealed to them or whether they can personally fit in with the Church.

Leaving the Church, for many or most of these disgruntled (ex) Mormons is therefore a personal matter, no different than a person who quits a job or quits a membership in some club, because of personal differences or dissatisfactions. Counting on these personal accounts, that are purely based on temporal matters, is a sorry mistake if the intent is to find God's true Church. This because in their next membership in some other church or group, what is to stop them from doing the same "personal preference" thing again? Since when is God's Church and his word based on personal preferences? Doesn't God warn us about such things?

If a person causes him/herself to believe that there is no true Church of God on the earth, then there is no salvation, simply by the fact that salvation, as per the New Testament, requires a active and working Church of Christ.

Personal misfortunes are not good reasons to leave the Church. Their personal dissatisfactions about whatever will be found in other churches or places or in other parts of their lives. The "temporal" context would be different, but the underlying issue remains the same.

At the level of "personal preferences", they are struggling with the human/mortal element of shortcomings and faults, including their own. They have faced and experienced their own personal issues in life, failed to see that the doctrine about the Lord leading us to become humble through our weaknesses is a true doctrine.

Ether 12: 27
And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

IN the Kingdom of God there is definitely law and right principles, by which all inhabitants of that Kingdom must abide. We see here on earth, the place to choose between good and evil, the very results of those free will choices. Those that refuse to abide in the law and good principles are creating disharmony, evil, wickedness, etc. Is there any truth to the idea that God will allow such wickedness inside his "perfect" Kingdom?

Common sense says no, so where will they go? Other Christians believe to hell, while Latter-day Saints will believe to either the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms, few will be in purgatory, in the end of it all. Where does this leave those dissatisfied (ex)Mormon's?

They are left to their own confusion of what the truth is about. The truth of their leaving is that they made some personal issue out of something and justified their dissatisfaction. The truth in Ether 12:27 above is seen in the stories of the dissatisfied. Their weaknesses were raised before their eyes such that they may be made humble before the Lord. Instead they chose the contention and misery of their own personal matters and walked away from Salvation.

It is their choice. Their free will to chose, but this blog entry is intended to warn and to explain to those who failed before God that we are all expected to endure and call upon the Lord for help. It is obvious that many have not done this.

Taking personal matters as a justification to leave the Church is not a spiritually justified act. If the "spiritual aspect" is of no concern to these (ex)Mormons, where they hold to their claim of personal-temporal reasons, then their claims are no different than leaving a job or leaving something of the world. Since this is all that it is for them, in truth, then God and his gospel was never a real concern for them in the first place, because they attribute God and his salvation to nothing more than what color they want the new car to be.

Monson is the New LDS President

2008-02-26T09:34:00.000-08:00

(Excerpt) Thomas S. Monson is the new president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it was announced February 4th, at a news conference in the Church Office Building. President Monson, 80, succeeds President Gordon B. Hinckley, who died 27 January 2008.

To read more of this news item - Monson is the new LDS President

President Gordon B. Hinckley Dies at 97

2008-01-30T10:19:00.000-08:00

On January 27th, 2008, at the age of 97 years, Gordon B. Hinckley died at his home with his family around him.

WE mourn for him at his passing, revering his work, patience and endurance. President Hinckley has rightly led the Lord’s Church and it’s members to become a fruitful Church for the Lord. He will be known as the Temple Prophet having built many temples for the Lord, to afford the faithful, across the globe, a place to worship and conduct crucial temple ordinances.

Amen.

Here are some links to news articles about the Prophet.

Links:
Church Leaders Pay Tribute to President Hinckley (LDS News Room)

LDS president met call with humility, vigor (Deseret Morning News)

President Gordon B. Hinckley has passed away (LDS Living)

Are Mormons Christian?

2008-01-23T19:09:00.000-08:00

Russell Ballard Speaks on YouTube - Video Below

How many times have I heard that Mormon's are not Christian? - I lost count.

If I did not consider this as something laughable, I would be offended. This must be a very poor joke from the detractors because the claims that Latter-day Saints are not Christian is as ludicrous and hypocritical as claiming we are not human. As easily as other Christians are human, they cannot call other humans as "nonhuman" when they adhere to the same designation. In the same principle, other Christians call themselves "Christian" despite the wide diversity and contradiction of beliefs and doctrines, all of which are not of the Bible but they still call themselves Christian. This designation of Christian is used by different denominations of Christian to the nondenominational to the independent or freelance Christian.

When any person properly researches into the beliefs of other Christians, from the traditional denominations to the freelancers, they will find that the various beliefs of who and what Jesus Christ is, is not the same. Between these diverse beliefs, none are consistent enough to show that the they adhere to the same "doctrine", yet all of them call themselves Christian.

Not once in the Bible is there a contradiction of doctrine in the early Christian Church, and any contradiction found by the apostles was corrected. The epistles of Paul are full of such corrections, but these contemporary Christians claim we are false and they are true? - Humbug!

This is the hypocritical part of all this. There exists contradictions between Christian groups and even within each group, yet they proclaim they are Christian. What audacity they have to accuse us of not being Christian with all the confusion and contention they possess among themselves.

One claim they use against us is that they are Bible only believers, saying that Mormon's disbelieve the Bible having our own Bible-imitation book called the Book of Mormon...so they say. Is this a justified claim? - Nay it is not

Using the fact that these other Christians believe in contradicting doctrines is proof enough that they do not follow the Bible. As they, so do we, claim that the Bible is the word of God. We place a condition on that claim where we clearly say that it is the word of God so long as it is correctly translated, or in many cases, properly interpreted. Their diverse doctrines, even on who or what is Jesus Christ, exists contrary to the Bible itself because of bad translations and interpretations. Many of their beliefs about the Godhead, they call the "Trinity" is also contrary to the Bible. Many of their beliefs about what is a "spirit", is not Bible based, neither based on any revelation.

In fact, many of their beliefs extend from the early Catholic church and their philosophies designed during and after the fall of the Early Christian Church. The claim that revelation ceased came from the early philosophers and early Fathers of the Early Catholic church. They were correct that revelation ceased, but they failed to teach that the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost, where revelation comes from, was due to apostasy of the early Christian Church. This apostasy occurred because of Greek and Pagan philosophical influences.

This intentional lack of teaching about revelation was promoted by the Early Catholic church to sustain themselves against much opposition by other groups who believed that revelation is important to God's true Church as Paul the Apostle had taught. Since then, the belief that revelation stopped prevailed, because the Catholic church had power supported by the government. The Christians of our day and age fail to see that revelation remained absent because of apostate doctrines and beliefs. Since they adhere to an apostate doctrine (following the tradition of the early Catholic church), then all doctrines created by these other Christians and philosophers, after the last apostle, are therefore false and made of men. They were not made of God. Only God is allowed to amend, add to, or remove any of his word, once he gives it through revelation. Since God had no part in the ongoing philosophies created after the last apostle, then all doctrines created by the early Catholic church and any other person, that gives these other Christians their beliefs, is false.

The condition I mentioned above applies here as well, that proper interpretation and translation of God's true word is by faith and that also speaks of revelation. When that condition is fulfilled, then it is the word of God because proper faith is proper revelation and that brings the Spirit of God into the mouth of his chosen representative called a "prophet". When this condition is not met, then it is not from God, instead it is from men alone or Satan bred.

Therefore, these contenders who accuse us of being unChristian, are, by their definition, as "unChristian" as they claim us to be.

Is it any wonder that the word of God, Romans 2:1 is so true, where God warns us not to judge, least we are judged the same way and that those who judge doeth the same! I suggest to these other Christians who attack of our Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, read the Bible better, for a true Christian, as described by the Bible is one who operates on faith and faithful works, walks spiritually (which is to abide in the Holy Spirit), and carries his cross, which is a heavy cross to carry, just as Jesus Christ showed us by example.

Therefore, to those who seek to mislead with their own foolishness and selfish pride I say this,

WE believe Jesus Christ is our Saviour, the same Christ in the Bible who is also in the Book of Mormon.
WE believe the Bible is the word of God, so long as it is correctly translated or interpreted.
WE believe that God still speaks to us and his prophet, called revelation, just like in the Bible and just like Jesus Christ promised in the Bible.
WE believe that to worship God as the Bible teaches, is to worship the Father in spirit and in truth, just like Jesus Christ did in the Bible and we do in the name of the Saviour Jesus Christ.

If these Anti-Mormons disbelieve what we believe, even here in what I say, then do just like the Bible says, "Ask of God" (James 1:5), which is exactly what the prophet Joseph Smith did, in accordance to the Bible in the forest grove over a century ago, and guess where that got him. - Say no more!

Amen

Dispensation and Generation - Scriptural Meaning of - ignorance of Anti-Mormons

2008-01-21T23:07:00.000-08:00

In some prophecies, both the Bible and Book of Mormon, the phrase "before this generation passes" or something similar, is read.

If you read this web page: http://www.earth-history.com/_toplevel/Generation.htm
or ...
http://www.timeemits.com/AoA_Articles/800-Year_Generation_Cycles-gr.htm

...you will see that the meaning of a generation is not around 80 years, but more to the tune of 800 years. This perspective of "generation" has been known for some time, and when we take this "perspective" and apply it to the prophecies in the Bible or Book of Mormon, that refer to a generation, the meaning of the prophecy changes and in fact for some of the prophecies made by Joseph Smith, those prophecies remain unfinished.

There is more. The word "dispensation" and "Generation", I believe, operate together. A dispensation refers to the period of time where God restores his gospel through his prophet to his people. Adam was one dispensation, Noah another, etc. In this I believe that the word "generation" applies to the "life" of that dispensation. Thus when it is said "before the passing of this generation" would mean before the passing of this "dispensation", which refers to its completion (as with Enoch) or its fall as with Israel in the Old Testament or the Early Christian Church.

With this applied to the scriptures would set, as I believe, a proper perspective and application of "generation" in the proper "spiritual terms and application", which is then in accordance to 1 Cor 2:14.

Yet, the detractors or "Anti-Mormons" launch their false antagonistic claims that the prophecies are false because "their definition" of the word "generation" (around 30-80 years to their calender) would make the prophecy false. They claim from that, that the prophet Joseph Smith is false also.

What these ignorant detractors will not tell you, is the truth about the scriptures and what God means by the word "generation". They are either completely ignorant of the truth, which fits with any Anti-Mormon, or they are purposely keeping the truth from the public to cast a false light on the matter, which also fits the Anti-Mormon mentality.

Anti-Mormons never seek the truth and they will never receive spiritual truth because they heed the evil spirit of contention, denying the spirit of truth.

The "worldly" (Anti-Mormon) application of the world "generation", to them, means something in accordance to the mind and ways of the world, not to the mind and ways of God. It is then, to them, a convenient tool to cause confusion, and all confusion is bred by Satan.

To those who care about the truth, just consider. A dispensation is like a single family to God. His application and use of his word is therefore spiritual and eternal also. This means that God's use of the word "generation" in regards to his people is to his family within a particular generation or life of that dispensation.

But this is not what the Anti-Mormons want to tell you.

Amen

No. 7 -CLaims of False Prophecies: "Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri"

2008-01-21T22:46:00.000-08:00

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy as follows:

Alledged False Prophecy (# 7) - Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri
This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.

A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

Institute for Religious Research said:
The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri due to persecution and a temple was never built on the "temple lot" in the lifetime of Joseph Smith or within the generation of his contemporaries.

My Answer:

Ways of Revelation and Application of the word - "Generation"

This 7th prophecy that was listed by the Anti-Mormon authors shows more of their ignorance of the Bible than any of their work thus far. I say this because it is glaringly apparent that the exact same things happened in the Bible. Here these Anti-Mormon's claim that in accordance to the revelation found in Doctrine and Covenants 84, it did not manifest to "their" satisfaction and by that, it confirms to them that Joseph was a fraud. What is truly a fraud is the act by these Anti-Mormon people to blind others to the existence of the "patterns" of revelation and prophecy found in the Bible, and these patterns also exist in the Book of Mormon. This matching of patterns would then properly test a book to be of God or not and this method fits in accordance to Paul's words found in 1 Corinthians 2:13-14; to properly discern in a spiritual manner and to match spiritual things with spiritual things, not try to match temporal things with spiritual things, which the latter would give a false impression.

Let us see how these patterns match.

Bible - Num. 34: 1-12 (KJV)
(Please read these passages from that Bible)
God reveals (means revelation) to Moses that a certain land is given to him and his people (Israel) as their inheritance. This is called the "promised land" (Land of Canaan). God even describes the physical boundaries of this land. So Moses and Israel begin to reside in the promised land according to revelation, but this revelation did not fully manifest. This because Israel was taken as slaves and assimilated into the Babylonian Empire and with that lost
their inheritance or lands. Such as 2 Kings 25:21, Judah was carried out of their land by Babylon and anyone left in that land was to serve the king of Babylon.

Now, let us take the same position as the Anti-Mormons and look at this Biblical passage with their point of view, which says:

"God gave a revelation that the Land of Canaan was for the inheritance for his
people, and that never turned out that way".

Is this not the same for Joseph Smith where God said he gives the location in Missouri for a temple? ...but let us carry this further. The Anti-Mormon author makes his claim that since Joseph Smith and his followers had to flee Missouri, the revelation then never came into fruition and by that the revelation is false. Well, hold on a moment, is that not was occurred in the Bible?

Is it not true that God told his people to flee the land of inheritance instead of protecting them and protect his "revelation" from failing? Go read - Zech. 2:6, where the Lord directs his prophet to flee the land, and where things shall be restored at a later date. That later date, now some 2500 years plus later has not manifested. But is that promise from God false, just because all that God had said never came to stay?

One of the mistakes made by those who do not know the ways of God is making a judgement of a spiritual thing by way of the temporal or by way of the flesh. This to say is that the Temple in Missouri, is a spiritual promise, one that requires God's will to manifest and remain. Such spiritual promises made by God, are many, even in the Bible, and not many if any have manifested as yet. Are we to judge God and his will by way of our own "temporal and physical interpretations"? This to say that since Joseph began the process to lay a temple in Missouri, that his move away from Missouri, is as easily seen as part of the trials and sufferings as was for Israel long ago when they had to "move away" because of their own failings and being taken by the wicked (Babylon).

This is to also say that the things God says will occur, but seem not to fully manifest and remain, is not because it is false, but fails because of this world. This means that God does not always impose his revelations to control our free will. As with Israel, they lost their inheritance because of sin, that being "temporal or mortal circumstances", where with Joseph Smith, because of mortal circumstances, caused certain things to occur and God's prophecy was delayed. What this reveals is that prophecy from God is not written in stone, that his promises can be affected by what we do. As Israel lost their inheritance because of sins, is it not reasonable to accept that the Saints temporally lost the temple because of other things, maybe sins as well?

What I have noticed in both the Bible and Book of Mormon, is that revelation given is not in accordance to our reference or expectation of time, and that revelation given or promises made by God are given to us, to spur hope, and lead us into the correct direction. After all, how else can God communicate, but through his prophet, as in the Bible. That God will give promise to teach us responsibilities in the midst of loosing that promise because of sin and shortcomings.

God knew full well that a prophecy was given at the heels of some serious trials, and as with the promise of inheritance in the Bible, God knew that Israel would not be able to sustain it, yet still God gave a promise. This shows us more evidence of our inability to accept God's ways, than any fault of God or his prophets.

Be as it may, a Temple was built in Missouri in 1990.

Now as to this "generation" interpretation, that has already been addressed and still applies here. In addition, if you sincerely look into the Bible, you will see God saying exactly the same thing, with the word "generation" as you read in Doctrine and Covenants 84. Let us take a look:

Bible: - Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled.
Doctrine and Covenants 84:5
For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

Do you see the exact same thing?

In the Bible Jesus Christ spoke prophecy of the latter days of, wars, false Christs, prophets, teachers, etc. He gave a long list and he clearly stated that "this generation" shall not pass away till all those things are fulfilled. Well, is it not true that the very generation in which he addressed did pass away and those things are "still" not yet fulfilled? ...then, IN the Doctrine and Covenants, the generation passed away, as per the Anti-Mormon claims, and the temple was not manifested?

Here we have two prophecies, both spoke of generations remaining alive, as so we interpret it, to await the fulfilling of a prophecy, and neither prophecy was fulfilled yet and both sets of generations are already long dead.

How come that the Anti-Mormon's do not tell you these things? How come when a proper match between the Bible and Book of Mormon, we see these similar things? Do you know why the Anti-Mormon's do not tell you these things as they twist your minds and fill your hearts with confusion? The main reason is "evil". They are simply evil and scripturally speaking, they do the work of Satan, using the Bible wrongly to create confusion, hate, fear and blindness. Which, if people follow this will find that they were led to their destruction by Satan posing as a Christian.

So what of the word "generation" then? If we follow the Anti-Mormon usage of that word, then the Bible fails, yea even the words of Jesus Christ fail making him a false Christ and false prophet. But we know that Jesus is real, at least some of us do, and since that is true, then the usage by the Anti-Mormons is sorely incorrect and leads us to false or bad doctrine. Is that not the prophecy of Matthew 24, of false teachers etc?

Well here is something to ponder.

In John 6:63, Jesus clearly said that his words are spirit and life, which means his words are always spiritual. WE know by what Paul said that the "letter killeth" (2 Cor. 3: 6), that it is only the spirit that gives life. Combine with John 6:63, this says that God's words and works are always spiritual, neither temporal, sensual, or carnal (when properly interpreted). Therefore, when Jesus Christ said that the "generation" shall not pass away until those things prophesied are fulfilled, then generation is in a "spiritual meaning", not a temporal meaning. This says that "generation" is to mean us in spirit, not us in mortality. That we, our generation in spirit, shall not pass away until these things are fulfilled. Now the only matter to resolve is what Jesus means by "pass away". What I propose for thought is this. The term "pass away" means "to finish ", or complete itself.

Why do I say this? - Look at the Bible reference - Prov. 4:15 / Matt. 26: 42

We have the same term "pass away" used, but with different meaning. In proverbs it is to mean "go away from it" and in Matthew, it means to "leave, or end". Then what God would mean by "end", in terms of the generation is really something he would teach the faithful to understand, but the wicked shall be confounded.

Ps. 129:5
Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.
Micah 3: 7
Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.

Amen

No. 6 -CLaims of False Prophecies: "Pestilence, Hail, Famine & Earthquake to Destroy the Wicked"

2008-01-21T22:23:00.000-08:00

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy as follows:

Alleged False Prophecy (#6 ) - Pestilence, Hail, Famine & Earthquake to Destroy the Wicked
And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requirements of the new covenant, have already commenced gathering together to Zion, which is in the state of Missouri; therefore I declare unto you the warning which the Lord has commanded to declare unto this generation, remembering that the eyes of my Maker are upon me, and that to him I am accountable for every word I say, wishing nothing worse to my fellow-men than their eternal salvation; therefore, "Fear God, and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." Repent ye, repent ye, and embrace the everlasting covenant and flee to Zion, before the overflowing scourge overtake you, for there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled (History of the Church, Vol. 1, pp. 315-316).

Institute for Religious Research said:
Such a widespread destruction of the wicked of that generation never occurred.

My Answer:
I will address this ill mannered claim by the Anti-Mormon's in two parts.

Part 1
First I wish to say that the manner and practice of the Anti-Mormon's is very selfish and self-serving indeed. The "excerpt" they provided is out of context, contrary to their promise it was in context. This I would say is that the context they refer to is the "context of contention", that being "their imposed context", which can only mean trouble and evil from their end. This prophecy may have many titles put to it, but one of them is "The Prophecy on the War of the Rebellion – The Olive Leaf Communication to Mr. Seaton – Warning to Zion. In order to give the proper context of why Joseph Smith gave this prophecy then, here is more of what Joseph Smith wrote on that day.

Appearances of troubles among the nations became more visible this season than they had previously been since the Church began her journey out of the wilderness. The ravages of the cholera were frightful in almost all the large cities on the globe. The plague broke out in India, while the United States, amid all her pomp and greatness, was threatened with immediate dissolution. The people of South Carolina, in convention assembled (in November), passed
ordinances, declaring their state a free and independent nation; and appointed Thursday, the 31st day of January, 1833, as a day of humiliation and prayer, to implore Almighty God to vouchsafe His blessings, and restore liberty and happiness within their borders. President Jackson issued his proclamation against this rebellion, called out a force sufficient to quell it, and implored the blessings of God to assist the nation to extricate itself from the horrors of the approaching and solemn crisis.
On Christmas day [1832], I received the following revelation and prophecy on war.
(B. H. Roberts, Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 1, Chapter 22, "The Prophecy on the War of the Rebellion – The Olive Leaf – Communication to Mr. Seaton – Warning to Zion.")

Joseph Smith went further to say as he moved into that specific prophecy

The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians; having been found through the ministration of an holy angel, and translated into our own language by the gift and power of God, after having been hid up in the earth for the last fourteen hundred years, containing the word of God which was delivered unto them. By it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph which was sold into Egypt, and that the land of America is a promised land unto them, and unto it all the tribes of Israel will come, with as many of the Gentiles as shall comply with the requisitions of the new covenant. But the tribe of Judah will return to old Jerusalem. The city of Zion spoken of by David, in the one hundred and second
Psalm, will be built upon the land of America, "And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads" (Isaiah 35:10); and then they will be delivered from the overflowing scourge that shall pass through the land. But Judah shall obtain deliverance at Jerusalem. See Joel 2:32; Isaiah 26:20 and 21; Jeremiah 31:12, Psalm 1:5;
Ezekiel 34:11, 12 and 13. These are testimonies that the Good Shepherd will put forth His own sheep, and lead them out from all nations where they have been scattered in a cloudy and dark day, to Zion, and to Jerusalem; besides many more testimonies which might be brought

(reference - ibid)

Please note the Biblical references made by Joseph, and the "context" that he presented. Joseph referenced very old prophecies, which refer to the millennium, which is the second coming. That is the proper context that lead into this prophecy. This says God gave a repeat of an old unfulfilled prophecy, and did so as follows:

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requirements of the new covenant, have already commenced gathering together to Zion, which is in the state of Missouri; therefore I declare unto you the warning which the Lord has commanded to declare unto this generation, remembering that the eyes of my Maker are upon me, and that to him I am accountable for every word I say, wishing nothing worse to my fellow-men than their eternal salvation; therefore, "Fear God, and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." Repent ye, repent ye, and embrace the everlasting covenant, and flee to Zion, before the overflowing scourge overtake you, for there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled. Remember these things; call upon the Lord while He is near, and seek Him while He may be found, is the exhortation of your unworthy servant.
[Signed] Joseph Smith, Jun.
(reference - ibid)

Take note, Joseph Smith said, after he gave a little preamble, that is was therefore "prepared" to say by the authority of Jesus Christ. To speak by the authority is simply "by authority", a power assigned by one in higher authority. A person who has the authority to speak for God does not always have to give new prophecy.

As to Joseph, in what he said by "authority", clearly shows that he was relaying a repeat of old prophecies made by ancient prophets. Simply read the part above I provided which was immediately before the prophecy Joseph relayed. Joseph applied the words of Old Prophets and their prophecies to the context of the United States as it was passing through some serious dark times.

The part of what Joseph said, "in preparing his warning" was removed by the Anti-Mormons. Joseph was not giving a "new prophecy", he was speaking of an old one, and applied it to the current day. Since the prophecies made by the "Old Prophets" have also not manifested, then where do these Anti-Mormon's get the authority to declare these "Old Prophecies" as false? - because that is exactly what they are doing. If they declare the words of Joseph Smith as false, they have effectively denounced the Bible, which makes them heathens and wicked.

Part 2
Second, how are the words of Joseph a repeat of old prophecies? This one should be simple to the faithful who know how to read prophecy. This is apart from simply reading the Bible, but taking the position that no references were made to Biblical scriptures.

When reading any thing that is claimed a prophecy from God, a truly faithful person must first know,

To use "spiritual discernment" in order to compare spiritual things with spiritual things (1 Cor 2:13).
That all words from God are spiritual (John 6:63)
That private interpretations always fails as proper discernment of any "prophecy" (2 Pet. 1:20)
Discernment by way of the "letter" of the Bible always leads to spiritual death and ignorance (2 Cor. 3:6)
That a person can only determine truth from God by way of "revelation of Jesus Christ" (Gal. 1:12),
That such methods brings the faithful right back to comparing spiritual by way of spiritual (my first item listed above).

This shows that a person follows God's ways, where God's ways are always the first and last in all spiritual matters, making it an eternal round, which means proper completion (Alma 37:12). The eternal round signifies the "Alpha and Omega" nature of the Lord, the beginning and the end of all things (Rev. 1:8,1; 21:6).

So what does this have to do with the call made by Joseph Smith in this alleged false prophecy?

Reading the prophecy "relayed" by Joseph Smith, that it was a repeat of the old prophecies and not new, shows that it has not yet manifested or it is not yet time. This is by two main factors seen in his words,

"...sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land" – This is something that God promises at the second coming. There has not been such sweeping since Noah's ark. God promised these things in the Bible centuries ago, and obviously, it is in God's timing not ours.
"...open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel" – This promise will not occur at this time. This has been established by the Lord to occur after the second coming. This was confirmed by Joseph Smith in the "Articles of Faith 1:10". Therefore, Joseph Smith speaks about the second coming, not before.

This means the prophecy is not fulfilled yet because the conditions Joseph relates are yet due.

Another aspect for the faithful to keep in mind is the meaning and application of words spoken, if spoken by God. Such words as "generation" was understood by the Joseph Smith and the First Presidency of this Church, as to mean a "generation" within the meaning of God's reference. This saying that the time reference to a "generation" to God is different than ours. Here is an excerpt of the words of Orson Pratt:

Referring to Doctrine and Covenants 84:5-6, Elder Pratt said:
As regards the number of years by which a generation shall be measured, we have no specific definite period given to us by revelation; the Lord speaks in terms that are general in relation to generations. Among the Nephites, immediately after Christ's appearance to them a generation was a hundred years, and in the fourth generation they were destroyed, as a nation; except some few who went over to the Lamanites. We find generations numbering from father to son, and from son to grandson, etc., and when we come to average generations, according to the statistics of nations, we find them to be about thirty years to a generation; but when the Lord speaks in general terms, and says, This generation shall not pass away, until a House shall be built to his name, as is given in this "Book of Covenants," and a cloud should rest upon it; in that case I do not think he is limited to any definite period, but suffice it to say that the people living in 1832, when the revelation was given, will not all pass away; there will be some living when the house spoken of will be reared, on which the glory of God will rest. Already forty-five years have passed away since that revelation was given, concerning the building of that House.
(Gerald N. Lund, Coming of the Lord, Chapter 2 - How Soon the End?)

This saying that if God gave a reference to when the second coming occurs, means that God would tell us when the second coming of his Son, Jesus Christ would occur. Since God will not do this, then he will not clarify what he means by the use of the word "generation". This God has done in the Bible, made prophecies with no clear time reference, and that is expected or accepted of God.

Therefore, when these Anti-Mormon's use these words as their time reference, they are altering the meaning of the prophecy and not giving the proper address to it. This they did on purpose, because that is the way of evil, being the father of all lies, Satan. This same method of twisting the truth a bit, was used against Eve in the garden. The Anti-Mormon's do the same thing as Satan. They alter the meaning of words and the application of the words to mean what they "interpret" them to mean. Then by doing this, they force the prophecy to fit within their framework and by doing this gives them the power to make false claims and present a false image and impression.

In addition, as Satan does to all God's words, is make the words apply in some temporal, sensual and/or carnal manner. This forces the interpretation to make the prophecy as unto men or unto the flesh, and as such, an evil person can then discredit it. This is a subtle trick, but all those who have no experience with the Holy Ghost and never were taught by the Holy Ghost will fall for that subtle and sneaky trick.

In contrast, if the Anti-Mormon's addressed the words of Joseph Smith properly, within the proper spiritual framework, they would be unable to make any claim against Joseph Smith.

Amen

No. 5 - CLaims of False Prophecies: "Finding Treasure in Salem, Massachusetts"

2008-01-21T22:03:00.000-08:00

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

Alleged False Prophecy (#5) - Finding Treasure in Salem, Massachusetts

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy in their words as follows:

This prophecy is recorded in Doctrine & Covenants Section 111. The introduction to this prophecy, found at the beginning of Section 111 states:Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Salem, Massachusetts, August 6, 1836. HC 2:465-466. At this time the leaders of the [LDS] Church were heavily in debt due to their labors in the ministry.

I, the Lord your God, am not displeased with your coming this journey, notwithstanding your follies.
I have much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality.
Therefore, it is expedient that you should form acquaintance with men in this city, as you shall be led, and as it shall be given you.
And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.
Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them.

No treasure was ever discovered, nor did Salem ever fell into the hands of the Mormons.

My Answer:
These are but two examples of many entries in the Bible where God used the word "treasure" or a related word to describe the riches of faith. How these Anti-Mormons accept the same word used in the Bible and even would support treasure hunters using the Bible to locate hidden riches, but the moment the word "Mormon" is included, all common sense falls away and they fall into hypocrisies, calling foul to us, as they equally foul themselves. As God uses the word treasure, it can be taken to mean things of faith, and not just physical wealth. This is why I showed these passages from the Bible, because these words can be easily taken and misread purposely against them.

But what of that Doctrine and Covenants entry, about silver and gold, and taking Salem?
This is the method of the Lord. Joseph Smith and the Church was in debt, having financial troubles. This was apparent that this existed before this revelation through Joseph Smith. A person would need to see the pattern in this section 111, in that the Lord gives a promise of wealth to Joseph, but as he promises this, the Lord clearly said that he will give Joseph and others with him the "power" to pay the debts. Then the Lord continues to say, in the last verse 11, his instruction to Joseph and others, to be wise and without sin, that God will order things for his good, only as fast as he is able to receive them.

What this clearly shows is that God will not give something to Joseph until he is able to receive it. This pattern was set down with Joseph Smith when the Lord said he cannot have the plates until years later. Then another example is the 116 pages that were stolen from Joseph, showing another example that Joseph is human like the rest of us, and makes errors, just like us. This is certainly no reason to discount Joseph Smith, because Moses himself erred, and as a result, he and God's people were kept from the promised land.

Therefore, the way D&C 111 therefore reads, is a lesson to Joseph and others to be patient, that things will be provided as needed. The prophecy was to "teach", it was not meant to manifest.

Now, let me pull the Bible into this. The Bible is full of God's prophets "erring", and even committing sin (King David as an example), yet they remained as God's prophets. This Doctrine and Covenants Section 111 is another example, supported by similar examples in the Bible where it shows the human failing, and that God makes a promise of treasure in many forms, but such treasures are not manifest on the earth, but later with God. How many times has God told his people of the great wealth, peace and joy, but alas, no such thing occurred while in mortality. How many times have we heard from the world that all the promises from God of peace, etc, have not come to light?

Are we going to berate the Biblical prophets for this?

This is then another example of God's "future" promise that he will fulfill, in his timing, when it is proper. When God brings Salem into the hands of the "Mormons", it will be in God's timing.

How easy to use the wicked principle of "impatience" to cast a false light onto the word of God!

Now what of the Bible prophecy to King David, that he would succeed and his Kingdom become great? Does that also depict a prophecy of riches? - let us see...

Read 2 Samuel 7:5-17, which speaks of Nathan prophesying to King David that the Lord will establish the kingdom of David forever. Then read the following passages of that same chapter:

2 Samuel 7:24-29
24 For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee
for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
25 And now, O LORD God, the word that thou hast spoken concerning thy servant, and concerning his house, establish it for ever, and do as thou hast said.
26 And let thy name be magnified for ever, saying, The LORD of hosts is the God over Israel: and let the house of thy servant David be established before thee.
27 For thou, O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, hast revealed to thy servant, saying, I will build thee an house: therefore hath thy servant found in his heart to pray this prayer unto thee.
28 And now, O Lord GOD, thou art that God, and thy words be true, and thou hast promised this goodness unto thy servant:
29 Therefore now let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may continue for ever before thee: for thou, O Lord GOD, hast spoken it: and with thy blessing let the house of thy servant be blessed for ever.

It is clear that the promise from God to King David was to establish the house of David, and King David was pleased. To establish his kingdom as promised by the Lord would be "wealthy" would it not? Thus, if we stand in the same time frame against this promise, as the Anti-Mormons stand to Doctrine and Covenants 111, what do we see? We see that the house of David was not established, and the prophecy from God to his prophet failed and did not manifest. The exact same thing as with D&C 111 and Joseph Smith.

Why is it then, that these Anti-Mormon's refuse to attack the Bible for it's same failing prophecies? Why do they attack Joseph Smith, yet refuse and fail to adhere to the same beliefs and apply them against the Bible? The reason? Well, the reason is simple and found in Romans 2:1, where those who judge unrighteously shall be judged the same way and they also do the very thing they accuse.

What does this establish? - Hypocrisy on their part, failing to be the same way with the Bible as they are with the Book of Mormon.

Was the house of David established even today? - NO, it was not, but seriously consider this. Jesus Christ was born through the House of David, by lineage. When he returns, he will "establish his kingdom" which will be the "house of David". Therefore, the prophecy to King David was a "future" prophecy that was not to manifest for King David, but only his house led by Christ. This says that the Anti-Mormon's "private interpretations" are faulty and worthless. That is a proper "spiritual discernment".

Now, the same can be applied to D&C 111 in regards to Salem and its wealth. When Christ returns, his rule established, then in his power would Salem Fall? - it would fall into the hands of the "Saints" who are with Christ in the Millennium.

And so it is and so shall it be.

Amen

No. 4 -CLaims of False Prophecies: "Congress to be broken up as a government"

2008-01-21T21:49:00.000-08:00

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy as follows:

Alleged False Prophecy (# 4) - Congress to be broken up as a government
While discussing the petition to Congress, I prophesied, by virtue of the holy Priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government, and God shall damn them, and there shall be nothing left of them — not even a grease spot. (Millennial Star, Vol. 22, p. 455. See also History of the Church (HC), vol. 6, p. 116, though when this prediction was incorporated into the official history, Mormon Church leaders decided to leave out the "grease spot" part.)

Institute for Religious Research said:
The petition was not heard nor was protection granted (Deseret News, Vol. 1, p. 59). Yet, Congress was never broken up and continues to function to this day. It is interesting that the compilers of History of the Church, added an editorial note in an attempt to soften or explain this prophecy. They state that: "This prediction doubtless has reference to the party in power; to the ‘government’ considered as the administration;" (note, p. 116). According to the note in HC, this means the Democratic Party, which was in control at the time. However, the prediction is that "Congress shall be broken up as a government" and Congress is made up of representatives from both parties. The Saints were making an appeal to the General Government, not to the Democratic Party, a point made by a summary statement in the left margin beside this prophecy as it is recorded in HC.

My Answer:
This is a carry-on from the #3 prophecy, and the same statements I made there, apply here. This again shows the determination by the Anti-Mormons to push only "one perspective", failing to take into account that the manifestation of this prophecy, which it was a prophecy, can take any form or manner that was not conceived. After all, God is an eternal being, such that his ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9) and his ways will surprise us. Even then how many Christians will confirm that God does his work, many times, silently, where we cannot know everything he does or everywhere he goes. As to this "grease-spot" prophecy, It clearly applies only to the congress, to which Joseph addressed. So what happened to the members of that congress of that time?

Allow me to use an excerpt:

I might add that it was the 28th Congress that was in office when Joseph Smith made this prophecy. Of the 296 that served during this Congress, 177 were Democrats and 111 were Whigs. The 28th Congress ended on March 3, 1845. 86 Democrats lost their seat in government and 59 Whigs, plus 6 others, for a total of 151 Congressmen that did not return to government for the 29th Congress. At the end of the 29th Congress, 50 Democrats, 27 Whigs, and 2 others that were in office during the 28th and 29th Congress lost their seats in Congress. Thus, at the beginning of the 30th Congress in March of 1847, 230 of the original 296 were no longer in power. This amounts to 78 percent of Congress. By 1849, 88 percent of the 28th Congress were no longer in office and by 1851, just 8 years after Joseph's prophecy, 94 percent were gone.

(James A. Carver, The Mormon Faith Un-Decker-Ated -"THE GREASE SPOT PROPHECY" p. 34 )

The prophecy was fulfilled, but on the other hand, in accordance to the "personal and private interpretation" of the Anti-Mormon authors, the prophecy did not fulfill "their" expectations of God. This statement says a lot. Is it not true, in accordance to Paul the Apostle in the Bible, that he clearly said in regards to all things from that, that we cannot interpret spiritual things (1 Cor 2:13-14), which is what God's prophecy is, and that such spiritual discernment (1 Cor 2:14), must occur by inspiration (2 Tim. 3:16) and not by "private interpretation" (2 Pet. 1:20)? So where is it that these Anti-Mormon's have used proper spiritual discernment? That they fail to see the same things occur in the Bible with God's prophets that they accuse against Joseph Smith?This says these Anti-Mormon's have no clue of what is really of God and what is not. All they profess are their beliefs, where there is "NO" inspiration or revelation from God to them on the matter. Is this not what God warns us about heeding to the doctrines of men. As I read the evidence presented, the prophecy came true and I care less of it satisfies the masses. It is not Joseph's responsibility to satisfy the masses (no respecter of persons), but to ensure that he pleases God. As it is an obvious trait of a faithful person to be "discarded" by the "mainstream" popularity because of Jesus Christ, which is in the same spirit that discarded the disciples of Christ in the New Testament.

Amen

No. 3 -CLaims of False Prophecies: The United States Government to be overthrown in a few years

2007-11-27T08:47:00.000-08:00

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy as follows:

Alleged False Prophecy (#3) - The United States Government to be overthrown in a few years
I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).

Institute for Religious Research said:
Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

My Answer

Prophecy was fulfilled - Anti-Mormon's made a very poor interpretation

Did the authors of the Anti-Mormon campaign research the history of the US well? - Nay they did not.

Did the authors make any attempt to find how the prophecy was fulfilled and in what context? - Nay they did not.

Did the authors properly account for what happened? - Nay they did not.

So what occurred?

The authors of the Anti-Mormon style ridicule failed to understand, even on purpose, that they are in no place, no power, and no authority to judge God and his methods to bring his prophecies to manifest. What has occurred was a selfish style of research, with the expressed purpose to discredit, not find truth.

When researching the events that Joseph Smith prophesied, one must learn to see that God works in mysterious ways, that man cannot readily see. In addition, foolish people will take the words of another and change the application of these words, even the meaning of them to heighten their position.

Here is an excerpt of the research that was done on this prophecy and shows what actually occurred, something these Anti-Mormon's have not told you:

Now the events concerning Mr. Douglas clearly fulfilled prophecy, but what about Joseph's prophecy of the government being overthrown? In modern American usage, "government" typically refers to the entire system of governing a nation, so we tend to imagine national anarchy when we someone speaks of our government being overthrown. But "government" can also refer to the political party in control or to the group of officers in power. In Britain, for example, "the government" is frequently dissolved and changed, meaning that the party in power changes, without genuine anarchy or disruption of the method of governing. Was Joseph Smith predicting utter chaos and the loss of our Constitutional form of government? I doubt it, for he had also prophesied elsewhere that our Constitution would be preserved, even though it would be endangered in the future. If we take his words to mean that the ruling powers in the country at the time would be overthrown, then that part of the prophecy has been fulfilled, as Woody Brison notes (personal communication, Nov. 1997):

You have documented nicely the fulfilment of the part about Stephen A. Douglas, but what about the part about the government? . . . [I]t turns out this prophecy also was fulfilled. "The government" at that time was essentially identical to the Whig party, which was totally vanquished in the elections of the 1850's and 60's and ceased to exist about that time.

(Jeff Lindsay, Prophesies of Joseph Smith)

In short, this prophesy was fulfilled in a "few years", and when I said that men have no place to judge God's ways, is to also say that God is not a respecter of men. Meaning that God will do things his way (Isaiah 55:8-9), and men as these Anti-Mormon's, have no place and no right to determine how God is suppose to manifest his promises and prophecies. These other men best alter their ways, because this shows very poor faith on their part.

What this also shows is that the author(s) of the "Institute for Religious Research", who attacked Joseph Smith have taken the words said by Joseph "out of context" and purposely discounted many other important facts, all to their convenience.

To take this a bit further, showing that even the Bible is being discounted, or is God's ways being revealed.

It is our doctrine, that being God's doctrine, that says God does not circumvent the laws of nature to perform his miracles, and he even works within the series of events that take place. Mortals do not fully understand the laws of this Universe, which means we do not know everything about it. Therefore, God does he works through the laws he placed here and he works through and with those natural laws. God does not circumvent his creations.

This leads into the information about a television program on the History channel, that aired in September 2006. It showed the research made in regards to the "miracle" events recorded in the Bible, such as the parting of the Red Sea. What they reported was the "possibility" that the ancient records were "mistranslated". In that example of the Red Sea, they said it was not the Red Sea, but the "Reed Sea". A place where marsh type land existed. They say that due to geological events, Moses and the people of God (Israel) crossed at the "Reed Sea" and not the Red Sea, which discounts the "miracle" of the Sea parting as previously told.

In that documentary, they account for the waters "withdrawing" due to a geological event that took place at the same time as the Biblical account and the washing away of the Pharaoh's army was the Tidal wave caused by those natural events. In essence, it was a matter of "timing" that made those events into God's miracle.

Here are those links:

Written Thesis:
http://www.answers.com/topic/passage-of-the-red-sea

Actual TV Documentary
http://theexodusdecoded.com/index1.jsp

Now what of these Anti-Mormon claims, how they discounted any prophecy Joseph made, and failed to see that their own Bible beliefs are also in serious question by "scientific research". This is to say that unless a person conducts his research properly, false interpretations and false results can be abound. In short, they waste their time with us, rather than spend their time with their faith, because before they know it, the world will discount them faster than they can discount us. All the "Anti-Mormon" work will be for naught, serving nothing to their salvation.

But wait, let us consider this possibility. That God is fulfilling his promise of the wicked falling, and God is keeping his promise through the works of the Anti-Mormons? Doing this by increasing his works through his faithful to spur the wicked (Anti-Mormons) to fill themselves up until they are ripe.

Is the evidence they present inspired by God? - Nay.

Are these Anti-Mormon's doing God's work by creating debate and argument? - Nay because such has no bearing on God's work of salvation and it certainly does not bring people to God, but leads them into "contention" which is the work of Satan (see 3 Ne. 11: 29 )

Is it not true that the Bible says...

Hebrews. 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And so it is, they have not faith, as they have not realized the evidence of things "not seen" because of the hardness of their hearts.

Amen

No.2 - Claims of False Prophecies: "David W. Patten to go on a mission"

2007-11-26T21:13:00.000-08:00

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy as follows:

Alleged False Prophecy (#2) - David W. Patten to go on a mission
Verily, thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto the world. (Doctrine & Covenants 114:1)

Institute for Religious Research said:
This prophecy was made on April 17, 1838. David W. Patten died in October of 1838 and thus never went on a mission the following spring.

My Answer

Not a Prophecy-David Patten's Calling & Failed Prophecies in the Bible
This entry by the author is the attempt to claim that this was a prophecy, when in fact it was not a prophecy. This revelation given to David Patten is common among the faithful. I will attest to that, because I have received similar directions from the Lord that did not manifest, and the reason it did not, is directly because of what "I did", that caused the change.

David got a "mission call". It was NOT a PROPHECY. The Lord never gives direction to any person to control his future or control the person's free will to choose. This means that David Patten was given a "call" to attend a mission and at any time after that direction, he can refuse and not abide in it.

To make an analogy, many self-proclaimed Christians, by the thousands, have claimed that God "called" them to their ministry to preach the Bible. They claim that God spoke to them, or urged them, or did something to "call" them. How many of these Christians became discouraged or disappointed when the "call" failed, or what they claim the Lord asked them to do did not manifest at all? Yet, as it failed or did not work out as they thought, and they claimed it was a call from God, where are the "Anti-God" people disclaiming them for "false prophecies"?...AND these same Christians whose "calling" from God did not work out, are they not the same ones that blindly proclaim that this "calling" to David Patten did not work out either?

Another important point to take into consideration is that God knew David was going to be killed, after all God knows our future. Yet God gave a calling to David Patten. Why would God not tell David he was going to die and waste his time giving a calling that he (God) knew would not happen? Here is the answer to this.

Ask yourself this question, if you knew someone was going to die, would you tell them? I am sure that many of you would falter at that question and either not answer it or actually say, "No I would not tell him". Therefore, what is God likely to say to someone with such a future? Is God going to say, "you are going to die, set your affairs in order"? Do you really believe that David was going to receive such a message without reacting to it? So what is the likely thing God is going to do, to keep David on the true path and not incite fear or depression both to David and his family?

The answer was that God gave him a calling.

God placed David on the path to get his personal affairs in order so that any member of his family was cared for. God wanted David to do this faithfully and David did. He obeyed the calling and direction, set his affairs in order so his family can endure his absence as if he would be on a mission for a long time, away from home and family. Once his affairs were in order, God allowed his death to occur now that his family is properly prepared for his absence. All that this family need do is grieve and not worry about other worldly mundane matters. In this I see great wisdom in our Father and Lord Jesus Christ to ensure that the faithful are prepared.

This should show you that Joseph Smith did not lie and did not make any false prophecy and God did not lie either for a mission David did go on in spirit.

God helped his faithful servant focus on what was important without the burden of fear and death on his mind, that it was "better" for him and his family to allow the death to be a surprise and to encourage faithful action and intentions. That is a wise and supportive God.

But these Anti-Mormon detractors would never think this way, because such would affirm an action of faith on the part of David, and such would be a good thing to affirm, and they would never affirm what is true and good.

Next, as to failing prophecies. The Bible has failed prophecies, but these Anti-Mormons would never tell you this. Here is a short list of some of these failed prophecies from the Bible.

Jonah 3-4 - Jonah prophesied the destruction of a town, and it did not happen because of the free will choice by the inhabitants

Matthew 10:23 - Jesus himself seemingly prophesied his second coming, and it did not happen.

2 Samuel 7:5-17 - a prophesy that King David's kingdom would prevail and succeed. In truth, it did not, it fell.
How come these "Anti-prophet" people do not post the same claims against the failed prophecies in the Bible? What of their claims in light of the same "failings" within the Bible? Of course, these Anti-prophet people would find themselves supporting Joseph Smith if they reveal and admit that even Jesus Christ gave a failed prophecy, which would equalize Smith with the Bible. It is easy to discredit others, but very hard to admit that the same issue or problem exists in their own backyard (meaning the Bible).

To give more information on this, I provide a link to a web page for greater detail about the alleged David Patton prophecy (calling):

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/patten.htm

What has happened with these Anti-Mormon claims?

What I believe is the following, that these Anti-Mormon's purposely misled the reader by taking and making anything that is claimed as a revelation or communication from God, or what can be falsely made to look as a prophecy, and call it as false...and / or...

...they have no clue what makes or does not make a prophecy of future events.

I venture to say it is both.

No.1 -Claims of False Prophecies: "The Coming of the Lord"

2007-11-26T10:26:00.000-08:00

Many have focused on prophecies to denounce Joseph Smith, in an attempt to paint him as a false prophet. I will present these claims one by one and speak on them showing to all what is the truth. On a particular web page a group of Anti-Mormon's listed seven (7) prophecies of Joseph Smith they claim are false. The author(s) are from the "Institute for Religious Research".

You can see the Anti-Mormon claims at: http://www.irr.org/MIT/jsfalpro.html.

Why would I be providing a link to the Anti-Mormon literature, is this not countering my own words? The answer is "No". The reason I place a link for any person to view is for reasons of openness and truthfulness. Many Anti-Mormon's withhold information with the specific intent to create a false impression of a "better light", hoping that by restricting the reader to their words would encourage readers to avoid Mormons. That is a very selfish and evil way.

I do not adhere to such dishonesty, so here is my answer to that.

There is a practice that God does and I follow. He provides his truth knowing and accepting that Satan will counter it, yet he does not hide himself or his words from Satan. This is called "opposition" where as God provides his truth for all to read and each person reading truth will have the freedom to compare it to the falsehoods and lies promoted by Satan. With the presence of truth vs. falsehoods, the person will have the freedom of will to choose one or the other. In this God allows free-choice to follow his word or to follow falsehoods. This is from the principle of Good vs. Evil, and the free-will to choose one side or the other. With that example from God so I also follow and do.

It is interesting to note, that in the Bible and Book of Mormon, it is warned that Satan can appear as a angel of light, where this gives the false impression this angel bears the light of truth, where in fact it does not. (see 2 Nephi 9: 9 / DC 128: 20 / DC 129: 8 / 2 Cor. 11: 14)

With that, I begin. The following is the first claim made on that Anti-Mormon web page, and my answer to this claim.

The "Institute for Religious Research" depicted this prophecy as follows:

Alleged False Prophecy (# 1) — The Coming of the Lord
President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. . . . it was the will of God that they should be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh — even fifty six years should wind up the scene. (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182).

Institute for Religious Research said:
This prophecy was spoken by Joseph Smith in 1835, and recorded by Oliver Cowdery. The fifty-six years were passed by 1891.

My Answer
The mention by the author from Institute for Religious Research was so vague that anything can be made of it, so long as the imagination is active. The information they presented says nothing about what the 56 years refers to, since they have taken only parts of what Joseph has said. It is easy to design propaganda when editing and altering statements to the extent, that it becomes a very vague reference that can be manipulated into anything. In addition, to present such an excerpt, edited, shows only the intent to entice the ignorant, as only the ignorant and foolish would take such a claim with no clear evidence, on face value, as showing truth.

I choose truth, not ignorance and I made the effort to read the History of the Church, Vol II, page 182. As I read it, I got a different impression than what the "Institute for Religious Research" wanted to create. When I read the the History of the Church page 182, I got the distinct impression that this was not a prophesy. What I saw was a statement from Joseph Smith about the "fifty-six years" that had nothing to do with an actual prophecy from the Lord. Instead, it impressed me that Joseph was referring more to the work that needed doing than being a prophecy. From this book, I show the following context for that meeting:

"Kirkland February 14, 1835. - This day, a meeting was called of those who journeyed last season to Zion for the purpose of laying the foundation of its redemption, together with as many other of the brethren and sisters as were disposed to attend. - (History of the Church, Vol II, pg 181)"

Any references made to what was told to Joseph Smith by the Lord had to do with the suffering of the Saints, the calling of certain people, the organization of the Church, etc and quelling discontentment which apparently existed at the time of that meeting.

If Joseph made such a reference as to the second coming of the Lord, his statement was taken totally out of context of what Joseph said and meant. You can read more about that in the link provided below. Further reading of the account of this meeting shows that Joseph had a previous vision ( see pg 180 & 182-footnotes of the History of the Church ) that addressed the organizational structure and order of the Church, such as Brigham Young becoming one of the 12 apostles. All of that came true.

What I see from this is that the "Institute for Religious Research" has created in their minds such a narrow and bias focus. They read that the meeting was ordered by the Lord, as it said, and automatically take every word (or close to it) as being a prophecy, or was this an attempt by them to twist the words of the account knowing that not all people will diligently seek a copy of that account in history of the Church?

In any event, they have taken a few words and twisted them way out of context, in order to satisfy their distaste for this Church. I assure you, that if any prophet of God makes a prophecy for all, it will be made very clear to all, for what value is it for God to make a prophecy that is so cryptic no one can understand?

Therefore, this secondary and vague reference to "fifty-six" years is not a prophecy, and I must repeat it, because the wicked are always "hard of heart and hearing" as the Bible says.

At best it is a statement to something that was not made clear in the accounting of that meeting. Yet even if, during that meeting, clarity was given about the application and meaning of the "fifty-six" years, it appears to have not been recorded. But to these gentiles, who know not the Bible to which they hold, they seek out any excuse to discredit and berate. Such actions are evil in and of themselves.

Now, if a person is sincere and honest, and willing to read more about this account, then he/she should follow this link and read the following page:

http://www.shields-research.org/General/LDS_Leaders/1stPres/Joseph_Smith/56_Year.htm

Anti-Mormon Video, "Christian Guy Totally Owns Mormons".

2007-11-18T09:15:00.000-08:00

A flash-video has been posted and it is entitled "Christian guy totally owns Mormons". The link to this video is here: http://break.com/index/christian-guy-totally-owns-mormons.html

I will make comment to this sick video. This video clearly shows that this person purposely set-up the missionaries for this verbal attack to show off his prowess. He was obvious in the video to show that he asked the missionaries to meet him in the parking lot. He planned the meet with a video camera to purposely malign the missionaries and "force" a bad light unto them. I will address some of the things he said.

=1=
He claims that he was trying to clarify what was said and what is under discussion, as to whether it was about the Crucifixion that the Romans imposed upon Jesus Christ or is it about the rejection of his gospel which leads to condemnation according to the Bible.

Comment:
His intent to set the missionaries up was obvious. He is creating a contentious debate by trying to inject error where none exists. He either intended to do it this way or he is blind to his own contention. When the Roman empire had Jesus Crucified, they have shown their rejection of Christ and the gospel by putting him to death. Therefore, both the people and the Roman empire rejected the gospel are condemned.

=2=
Claims that any person who comes to your house and does not have the correct book is false.

Comment:
He has not proven such a thing with the Book of Mormon. Contention is shunned by God and therefore is not from God and not valid as evidence against the Book of Mormon. Contention shows ignorance of God's word.He therefore has not learned the word of God. By his actions and what he is claiming he shows that he has taken the beliefs of men that falsely claim the Bible is closed and no more revelation can occur. This is an old Catholic dogma. He shows by that statement that he does not know the history of the Bible and how it was complied, that the Catholic church was the one that complied it, with the approval and influence of the Roman Empire, the same entity that rejected the saviour, Jesus Christ and are condemned.

He has judged the Book of Mormon based on the false idea that the "Bible" is the only word of God, failing to see that the Bible never existed when the last apostle left. The texts which comprise the New Testament are newer than the texts of the Book of Mormon. The Bible is not made from the original texts written by the Old prophets and apostles, it is a compilation of writings of the followers of the early Christian Church, and the Bible is the combination of all these writings which were third, fourth hand, etc.

He has also failed to understand the words of Paul that his writings were not of men, they were inspired from God, or as Paul said, the Spirit of Jesus Christ. His claims are based on his personal view of the Bible and the Bible makes no mention of itself in that way. The word of God in the Bible does not deny the Book of Mormon. The Bible denies the works of men who by private interpretation make false doctrines and beliefs. The Bible speaks for the word of God and clearly states that only by the Spirit of God is the word of God given and only by the Spirit of God can a person discern any other writings to be of God or not.

This hypocrite in the video makes no such claim and with his obvious contention, he is not following the Spirit of God, he is following his own pride and puffed up heart, which is, in accordance to the Bible a manner of false doctrines of men. ( 1 Cor. 4: 6, 18-19 / Eph. 4: 14 / Col. 2: 18 - and 2 Ne. 28: 12, 15 )

=3=
He contentiously claimed that the missionaries came there to ask him if he wanted to learn something.

Comment:
He made a false statement. It as clear by his own words in the beginning of the video that it was he that made that very statement to the missionaries, asking them if they wanted to learn something. The missionaries did not say that. He is twisting the entire conversation and blaming them for his own words and actions.Given a little time, the true intent of a person comes out in how he speaks and chooses to interact. This man is clearly determined to denounce the missionaries, having set-up the entire event. This is shown in this accusation of his against the missionaries. In addition, the entire conversation to this part was contentious, where that fellow was purposely creating argument with them and had no intention to listen or discuss.

=4=
He claims by Luke in the Bible that what is given by God cannot be resisted. Using this to say that the Mormon Missionaries are unable to speak against what he says.

Comment:
This is an evil twist and usage of the word of God, all for selfish purposes. The "knowledge" he claims cannot be resisted is the written word of God in the Bible. He obtained it from the passage of Luke 21:15. His meaning and usage is false and it is not what the Bible says. This is why.

The Bible did not exist at the time Jesus spoke those words. Therefore, the "knowledge" was not written at that time and was given orally by Jesus Christ. Therefore it does not apply specifically to any book. The "giving" of wisdom is from another source, that source, which Christ refers to is the Holy Spirit. This means that to obtain this wisdom, can only come from God directly. This person did not obtain any such wisdom from the Holy Spirit, it is from his private interpretation of the Bible.

This then refers to the presence of the Spirit and by that people would not resist or have gainsay. In the BIble also, it clearly shows that with contention the Spirit is not present. He has therefore used the passage in Luke falsely and wrongly. Now look at this situation, he misused the passage and made it to mean the written word as the wisdom and that is incorrect in accordance to that passage. The "spirit" that this guy was displaying was one of evil, contention, selfishness and puffed up pride. Next his aggressive manner was to control the situation to his benefit, once we see his puffed up head at the end of the video.

The missionaries were trained not to contend with the word and that is why the missionary said "stop" to end the contention created by the (fake) Christian guy. Now, let us see what that scripture really says:

Luke 21:15-17 15
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Luke 21 does not refer to the "Bible" giving wisdom. The application of the words of Christ is to the manner which his apostles will receive this wisdom. Since the Bible did not exist at that time, this passage therefore does not refer to the written word in the Bible.

The "Christian guy" abused this passage and took it out of context. The meaning of that passage is to refer to the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost giving this wisdom to the apostles by way of inspiration. It is by this Spirit that such inability to resist comes from. This inability to resist does NOT exist when throwing around written words. ...But since this Christian-guy likely believes that revelation is closed, therefore cannot receive any inspiration and therefore is using Luke falsely.

Also remember in the Bible that when Jesus began his ministry, he was put out of many tabernacles, and he was the Son of God! Therefore, how come is it that his words were "resisted"? Quite the contrast to his usage of this passage in Luke. BUT...where does this block exist that causes any such lack of resistance? It is from his aggressive nature, where he dominates the entire encounter against the missionaries.

The missionaries are trained to be humble, not to push, not to be aggressive, not to be contentious or get into scriptural arguments. They are trained to act in faith and avoid all confrontation as possible. In addition, the Spirit of God does not get into verbal battles and contentions. Such things are evil and abominations and vexes the spirit. The apostles faced such evil continually and such that they were "resisted" on many fronts.

This says that the word of God and the Holy Spirit are not ring-side contenters to bash it out with anyone. What the Spirit of God wants and teaches to the faithful is to remain composed, humble and many a time silent to the beligerant bashing from evil doers, as this "Christian guy". The missionaries behaved properly and I must commend them.

=5=
He blames the missionaries that they are talking too much and are angry

Comment:
Falsehood. He is the one with the wide mouth and aggressive with his speech. He is the one cutting off the missionaries left and right, interrupting with accusations and claims and pushing his attitude. It is well known that the LDS missionaries do not bash other people or other religions. Such a view is shown in this excerpt:

"Abraham said he prefers the way LDS missionaries teach because they "aren't pushy and sometimes teach through referral, and they don't bash (other religions)."
(Url: http://media.www.utahstatesman.com/media/storage/paper243/news/2007/09/19/Features/Religious.OpenAir.Speaker.On.Campus-2977601.shtml )

=6=
Claims the missionaries do not want to deal with the word of God diplomatically

Comment:
His actions show he is a hypocrite. He has been contentious and verbally aggressive from the beginning.

=7=
Says somebody was not believing in the Bible

Comment:
He is injecting that judgement, the missionaries made no claim by direct words or inference that they deny the Bible. He is injecting fault, his own bias and ignorance. Since he was controlling the conversation to suit his attitude, he has no clue as to what the missionaries believe, because he never gave them the chance to elaborate.

Even though the video has been edited, he has made it so that the video presents a false impression about the missionaries and with parts edited out, we have no idea what the missionaries said to him beyond what was shown. With such editing he has tainted his claims showing himself to be very bias. There is no creditability to his actions and claims.

=8=
Says that the missionaries believe in Joseph Smith and not Jesus

Comment:
Proof - this was a rehearsed and contrived encounter and his aggressive front to control both the conversation and the missionaries. He injected his own ignorance about the Church of Jesus Christ, as the missionaries said nothing, by his video, about their beliefs about Jesus Christ versus Joseph Smith. They spoke of Jesus Christ. They could not get word edgewise into it. He has injected fault where no fault exists, all just to create a false image of the missionaries.

=9=
Claims the missionaries try to dominate the conversation

Comment:
Hypocrite, he is clearly domineering.

=10=
Said he does not want to know what they believe

Comment:
He just proved his real intentions with this video and encounter. He spoke in pride and condemnation against the missionaries. This statement from this creep clearly shows that this whole matter is a set-up and he really had no interest in what the missionaries believed. He only wanted to verbally attack them and puff up his image.

It is clear by this statement of his that his claims the missionaries cannot discuss anything diplomatically is a false accusation to malign. Yet the missionaries ended the contentious encounter in accordance to the Bible.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

=11=
The Christian guy said in the video - "As you can clearly see, there is not a man on the planet that can stand before us. This is evidence that it don't matter if it is the white boys whose lost and think that they believe in Jesus but really believe in Joseph Smith, or whether there is an Israelite, and knows he is an Israelite and he is an Anti-Christ, the same thing happens. They cannot stand here in front of us because we are the real ones. We're the guys. "

Comment:
This person has used the word of God to "puff-up" his own self-image, as a bigot and racist, condensending, arrogant, self-centered and a "high and mighty" attitude. Not one of these traits belong to a true disciple of Christ. He is example of the types that Christ warned us about and shows the manner of evil that will exist in these latter days, as these wicked ones who proclaim the name of Christ will serve their own selfish and gang related minds.

This person clearly did this act against the missionaries for his personal gain and to serve his pride as he claims that no man on the planet can stand against him and he is the "one". Hence he was a gainsayer where Luke 21:15 does not apply to his favour, but applies against him. For the puffed up and prideful one's, they think this video is great, but this prideful self-gain is shunned by God.

This guy has not shown any understanding of the word of God in the Bible. But he has shown he is good at setting innoncent people up and manipulating them.

Amen